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Author Topic: TEOTWAWKI Hard decisions  (Read 8392 times)

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aussiesurvivorman

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Re: TEOTWAWKI Hard decisions
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2015, 08:37:47 pm »

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I am not sure why one would want to loot a gun shop - need to get these things before the big rotten paw paw hits the fan.  If you need guns and ammo just do what they do in South Africa, raid a police station or military base, they will all be out controlling traffic and looters.  One or two rifles is not that hard to acquire while things are good - no need for that kind of madness.

LOL. I was going to say that too, but was afraid that was a bit too controversial :D
Not that anyone who calls themselves a prepper should ever need to do that anyway.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2015, 08:42:08 pm by aussiesurvivorman »
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aussiesurvivorman

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Re: TEOTWAWKI Hard decisions
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2015, 09:12:09 pm »

I do actually think it may be a good idea to make a few legit last minute runs to shops to get some extra supplies. No harm in doing so, provided you do it early. Very early. As a prepper you should be several steps ahead of the average populace in terms of what's going on anyway. If you see the warning signs, and I think everyone will agree with me on this, ACTING EARLIER IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN LATER. For example if the authorities issued a warning for a cyclone, bushfire etc in your area, you and preferably another strong person should get the family/group emergency plans activated and if you have two vehicles which most families do, get into one and do a quick run to the supermarket to grab some extra essentials while you instruct the rest to get the designated BOV going and everyone loaded up and ready to roll. Of course take a Go Bag with you as you may need to RV with the others. If radio systems are a part of your BO plans, then establish a line of comms with the rest of your folk. The approximate time you have before sheeples start heading for the shops would be within an hour and maybe even less depending on what amount of panic and hype the media causes.

The mission: get as much as you can reasonably carry and get out as quickly as possible.

On arriving at the supermarket, one of you should grab a shopping cart and the other should make a beeline for the water section. Grab as many boxes of water as you can. I suggest you know exactly where bottled water is located in your local supermarkets and also what is available. I know where and what bottled water is available in my local area stores and know precisely what I'm going to grab. The other person with the trolley should head for the packaged food section and the toilet paper isle. Grab easy to prepare foods like instant noodles, soup satchets and pasta. For toilet paper, get something like a 48 roll value pack. Get the job done and get out of the area as quickly as possible.

Of course supermarkets, fruit/veg stores, pharmacies and warehouses etc will be the first to be looted. But some other places that many people may overlook would be camping stores and the like. You could get some Backcountry freeze-dried meals and extra survival gear from there. I'd suggest you head to one of them.

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Baggyarse

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Re: TEOTWAWKI Hard decisions
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2015, 05:17:13 am »

I think post a collapse my first reaction would be to bug in or out depending on the nature and speed of it. After establishing a safe place, I would have no problems with going out and foraging for supplies (ram raiding if necessary). I have a 12t tipper and 6t excavator for gardening the truck has about 200lt of diesel which I always fill after use. The pharmacy is a good tip by somebody earlier, but I'm thinking machinery, hardware supplies, irrigation/plumbing, tools, solar panels, batteries, inverters, livestock cows/sheep/chickens, anything that could be used to get self sufficiency and spares or redundancies for systems rolling faster so long as it is abandoned its fair game I reckon. I'm not going to get into a shoot out for it or any sort of confrontation over taking stuff. By the time I think it is safe to go out foraging I reckon all the new good stuff will already be taken such as pharmacy supplies, dried foods, fuel etc. My thoughts on this scenario are that gangs or cartels will set up in the short term until supplies are diminished at things like fuel depots/service stations and perhaps big hardwares like bunnings or any warehouses. I reckon the current outlaw bikies would adapt well post collapse to this style of survival. They already have a working chain of command, fire arms and are well experienced at standover tactics. They could be the dominate groups and end up enforcing some sort of order in the urban environments. Something like the flavellas of Brazil. Thats if the government can't establish control over the armed forces and police.
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doomsdayprepper4570

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Re: TEOTWAWKI Hard decisions
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2015, 06:45:59 am »

With the cyclone in 2012 we lost power for 4 weeks and no phones for 3 weeks (no mobile or landline). I managed to get the SES at Monto on the UHF set and they asked what we needed. 40 liters of diesel was all that we needed to give us a safety margin. Yep, no problem, we will get it to your gps co-ordinates in 2 days. Well that is 3 years ago and I still look to the skies when I hear a copter and wonder if its the fuel, LMAO.
Seriously, in times of real needs and you are isolated the only person you can rely on is yourself.
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Loose ends make my arse itch and I have just clipped my finger nails. So the itch flows to my trigger finger.

doomsdayprepper4570

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Re: TEOTWAWKI Hard decisions
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2015, 07:03:19 am »

I feel that when crush time happens we will easily know that it is here!
USA 20 trillion in debt and climbing.
100's thousand of multi client poly box coffins spread through USA.
Major underground bunker system being/maybe finished at Townsville military base.
China buying 1000's of tonnes of gold bullion.
Cities like Detroit having suburbs reclaimed by bushland due to lack of human activity.
Riots and looting worldwide triggered over someone farting in the wrong crowd!
Really folks do you think things are getting better. Our society is on the brink and just needs a stiff breeze blowing in the right direction.
Not to mention the influx of hard drugs into Australia and the "zombies" that use them.
I have had them come into the hospital where I worked shitfaced and seeking more drugs at 2-3 am while on nightshift with 2 staff members present. Myself and a girl!
It will not be long as people are killing themselves already just for a buzz and their bored!
The mining boom boofheads are in for a shock when their 6 figure jobs go poof and their arse is owned by the banks.
It is all a smoldering cocktail of uncertainty!
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Loose ends make my arse itch and I have just clipped my finger nails. So the itch flows to my trigger finger.

snake.six.three

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Re: TEOTWAWKI Hard decisions
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2015, 08:20:18 am »

Baggyarse has a real valid point about criminals adapting quickly. I was in Tokyo when the Kobe earthquake hit. The Yakuza was the first to distribute blankets, food and medical supplies within Hours of it hitting and some 4-5 days before the government established a supply chain. It cemented themselves in the population early on. In a case where there is no immediate recovery in site i reckon all main distribution centres will be controlled by one group or another. Give it two - three days and they will have established local control give it a month and cities will be divided into sectors. similar to any current war torn area, their area, their control and their price......from there they spread outwards into the countryside.

S.S.3
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shineyshooter

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Re: TEOTWAWKI Hard decisions
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2015, 08:36:11 am »

I have plans depending on scenario. 

Fire:  Aka, it's not TEOTWAWKI,
A major fire [in a fire prone region] and we can [and probably will] be out in a few mins, depending on the scale of such an event.  There's a few key items [and a pet] and a drawer that we open and take that take us less than 1 min to get.  Bug out bags [also suitable for fires] are in both of our cars and we go in a close convoy in case we loose one vehicle in 1 of 3 directions depending on intel, though one direction is the safest option we'll take without such info being available.  Basically we leave most things and get out.  Whilst I have some basic items, we really won't need them as we head to relatives in suburbia.  Best and safest option for survival in such a situation and also the most likely to happen.   

Financial crash/fuel shortages etc:  As we rent, we can move tomorrow, relocating to family who have no banks or landlord to pay and some space to grow things.  Together we'd provide enough for the house as a whole, through a slow and ever increasing hardship.  We have more than enough food for all for some time and we have more than enough fuel to move our things with the vehicles available.  I have skills such as how to grow food with very little in such a situation that would be a good trade if my career of choice wasn't economically viable [though in some ways it would be in more demand and I would happily barter for it] 

Slow TEOTWAWKI
Grab what we can.  We have most things but you can never have enough, so the focus is on unusual purchases and secondary locations are such as feed and grain suppliers, getting oil/fat from supermarkets, LPG gas bottles, going to a hardware store and getting extra tools/fertilizer.  Until things get really crazy, be part of the crowd, look like you're doing what everyone else is and go for the things that people are likely to get secondly and most importantly, take no risks.  Potentially and instead is to get on the road and relocate whilst everyone's getting things, that day or two might make all the difference.  I don't plan to bug out, though I certainly have a few options here depending on the situation and can get the essentials in 2 cars in about 1-2hrs whilst everyone's in the supermarket queue.  I'm looking at changing my situation for that such as getting a van I can back up to a shed and load on a pallet or two, that's stocked up, wrapped in plastic on a hand forklift and ready to go so I'm ready to go in minutes, but that's where we're at currently.

Fast TEOTWAWKI or major risk in exposure to others
Perhaps nuclear war, plague - Fill the bath tub with water, lock and load, grab what I can, barricade, tape up windows with plastic, set up gear to ready oneself to stay inside for an extended time.  The emphasis would depend on the scenario.   

===================
Such change will defiantly bring out the wolves, the predictors and the opportunistic.  It's important to be ready for them, to set up the neighbors to work as best as they can to defend one another as to my mind that is the only chance a community has. 
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Pedro

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Re: TEOTWAWKI Hard decisions
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2015, 09:44:02 am »

Will you even know if it's TEOTWAWKI?

If it's an expected event such as an approaching bushfire or cyclone,
then it will be relatively easy to carry out last minute stocking up (if you're quick).

If something strange happens, e.g. no internet, no electricity anywhere, banks close, ???
- might be best to assume TEOTWAWKI and carry out a last minute stock up but with additional
precautions.

1) Don't go to local shops where you might be recognised by a neighbour or workmate.
    They may remember seeing you with that stack of toilet rolls when their last one is gone.

2) Don't overdo any one item in the shopping trolley.
    Again, you don't want to be remembered as taking loads of goodies and depriving others
    of their 'rightful' share.
    Also, you might start a fight or a panic if items are already running short.

3) Don't indicate you are a prepper in any way (don't wear your camos and BOB into the shop).
    If anyone talks about the situation, you are "getting enough for a few days, should be back to normal by then".

4) Pay by cash and get that cash from a different place from where you're shopping.
    NO cards, i.e. credit, debit, reward, loyalty or the like - you're purchases will be listed in the computer and
    IF the Gubmint has contingency plans, they may include confiscation of 'hoarded' goods
    and you will have provided a list of what you have just bought.

5) Don't let your vehicle be seen being loaded up with piles of stuff as your group rendezvous.
    (Probably a muddy numberplate wouldn't be a bad idea too).

6) When you get back to base, make sure you purchases are quickly located in the various
    hidey holes you have already prepared. (If you get raided that night, you don't want to lose everything).

All sounds a bit selfish and greedy I know, but it's called survival.
If you want to help others, that's great, but do it on your terms, not dictated by officialdom or
an aggressive neighbour.
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Offgrid

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Re: TEOTWAWKI Hard decisions
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2015, 09:49:36 am »

There's an easier way, matey. Take your time and get to three months' worth of provisions...then live off of them and keep refilling missed inventory. Just remember to rotate your stock. A lot of stuff can be frozen...

BTW: I'm a big fan of NITROGEN gas preservation. I use N in my bulk diesel tanks and inject it into bulk grains using a copper tube that has a 180 bend at the end so grain doesn't clog it as I push it down into the plastic barrels. Nothing lives off of N...not even mould.
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crazycatlady

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Re: TEOTWAWKI Hard decisions
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2015, 01:25:19 pm »

Have you ever been at the supermarket when people are panic buying?  I have - they are fighting over the last loaf of white bread, the last bottle of milk and the last disposable nappies.  Enjoy the supermarket - no one wants to buy lentils - guarantee!

And I'm a bug in kinda gal.  Medications are good but learn the alternatives and how to process them.  Learn to diagnose and supplement the diet.  The best investment you can make is in your own health and skill development.
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shineyshooter

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Re: TEOTWAWKI Hard decisions
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2015, 04:28:16 pm »

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BTW: I'm a big fan of NITROGEN gas preservation. I use N in my bulk diesel tanks and inject it into bulk grains using a copper tube that has a 180 bend at the end so grain doesn't clog it as I push it down into the plastic barrels. Nothing lives off of N...not even mould.

Now 'that's interesting.  How long does your diesel last undisturbed bud?  It might be an excellent option for fuel storage I had not come across till now?
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OzHippy

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Re: TEOTWAWKI Hard decisions
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2015, 06:28:42 pm »

China also heading for trouble! _ see my post:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Yeah, the idea of prepping is to get all needful things prior to a collapse.  If you have extra cash- get the few last things, additional to what I posed previously, dog food, gas (BBQ, small camping stove) for discrete cooking, lamp oil, lots of hardboiled lollies etc.

The Oz attitude she' be right mate, goes well with 9 meals to chaos outlook.  As with the ammo shortage in the US.  " And then there was the interview with privately held Hornady Manufacturing. There, President Steve Hornady explained to the NRA, "People walk into the store, they don't see as much as they want so they take everything they can get. The next guy who comes in can't get anything, so he panics."
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If people see a few guys with trolleys full of bread and tin goods, rice, water:  they panic and get the same idea and with social media 15min to a frenzy.




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We live in interesting times!!

Offgrid

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Re: TEOTWAWKI Hard decisions
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2015, 07:27:33 pm »

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BTW: I'm a big fan of NITROGEN gas preservation. I use N in my bulk diesel tanks and inject it into bulk grains using a copper tube that has a 180 bend at the end so grain doesn't clog it as I push it down into the plastic barrels. Nothing lives off of N...not even mould.

Now 'that's interesting.  How long does your diesel last undisturbed bud?  It might be an excellent option for fuel storage I had not come across till now?

Your tank has a breather on it. Hook the N bottle to it and MINUTELY let N into the tank as you use the fillup nozzle. As the fuel leaves...it's replaced by N and not air...

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